Wednesday, June 16, 2004

Time for hard left.

It's time.

It's time to stand up and say what we're thinking.

Hell, it's time to stand up and say what I'm thinking.

The wall is wrong. The occupation is wrong. Ariel Sharon should have been jailed after Sabra and Shatila. Shimon Peres is not nearly hard enough. The settlers do not deserve any special treatment (not positive, anyway).

We have the right to defend ourselves, when we're living within our borders.

We are living on stolen lands.

We should never have come here.

We are cruel and unjust.

Our army's actions are far worse than the Hamas'.




Those are things I often think. A lot of the time I'm a little more practical. Not much practical, just a tad... Most of the time, I don't say those things out loud.
Maybe I should start.
Maybe if many more people start talking like that, the "sane center" will get used to those ideas. The right has been successful at that; if you say it enough, it'll stop sounding delusional and people will accept it. But then again, I guess it's easier to convince people in insane hateful ideas than it is to convince people of peaceful humanist ideas.

83 Comments:

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June 22, 2004 at 4:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Perhaps it would be a little more convincing if you told us why you believe these things. If you're interested, I've got questions:

Why is the wall wrong? It's not killing anyone; it is simply keeping those who would kill from killing.

Should any leader of any country be jailed for something their allies do which is wrong? Or does this only apply to Israel's allies? Or does this only apply to non-leftists?
How wrong does it have to be to merit jailing a national leader?

Is it that Shimon Peres is not hard enough, or is it just that most Israelis no longer believe that the Palestinians can be trusted with pointed sticks, and thus do not support those who want to allow the terrorists to use their guns and rockets as long as one of them sits at a table and talks?

What treatment do the settlers deserve, and why?

What are "our borders"? The pre-1967 line? The pre-1956 line? The pre-1948 line? The pre-1945 line? Who gets to define these borders? Why does it fall to them rather than the forces of history? Are the post-1967 borders less just than the pre-1967 borders? Why?

Is all of Israel "stolen", or just the territories, or just what the Palestinians want? From whom? Were those lands first "stolen" from Israel, so that they've only been "stolen" back, or does Israel have no claim to any plot of land?

Where should we have gone? Should we have allowed ourselves to be killed and driven out? Should we go back to France and Germany?

If we are "cruel and unjust", are the Palestinians also cruel and unjust? What do we do that is cruel, and what that is unjust? What alternatives would be better? What is the standard of cruelty and injustice which states that Israelis are cruel and unjust, but Palestinians who kill Israelis are not cruel and unjust? And if the Palestinians are cruel and unjust, then what do we gain by abandoning our defenses against them, other than cruelty and injustice?

Hamas kills mothers and their children. Hamas bombs pizza restaurants. All on the theory that every Israeli is a military target. Is it "worse than Hamas' [actions]" to kill the killers before they kill Israelis? Or is it only wrong for Israelis to kill, but not to be killed? Is any level of atrocity against Israel to be allowed to prevent the death of one innocent Palestinian? Would you voluntarily be killed - horribly and brutally - and all of your friends and your family, rather than see Yassin killed?

I am very curious as to your answers.

June 23, 2004 at 3:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My dear,

you arenot really "thinking" as you claim - this would include some rationality. The word you were looking for is "feeling". I am sorry you are emotionally suffering form the "mazav" (situation), however fuzzy statements like yours are not going to help anybody.

June 24, 2004 at 1:40 AM  
Blogger Red Rubin said...

Dear Mr. Anonymous number 1.

I'm sure you've heard everything I stand for and believe in many times in the past, as I've heard the right-wing doctrines many times.

Normally, I'm perfectly happy to engage in such discussions, which are rather pointless since we all know what we believe in but it's always interesting to preach and be preached to.

But in this blog, I do not wish to do so. It's not what it's for. I am neither here to promote my idiology nor am I here to convince anyone of anything.
I'm just writing what I'm thinking (or feeling, to refer to Mr. Anonymous number 2's semantically oriented comment).

But, if you would want to discuss things, feel free to e-mail me.

June 24, 2004 at 6:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guess it's easier to convince people in insane hateful ideas than it is to convince people of peaceful humanist ideasActually, it's impossible to convince people of any ideas, whether hateful or humanist, if you scorn the people you're trying to convince. The settlers and the far right love Israel, albeit in a twisted way, and so their appeals to Israelis are not filled with scorn. For many of those on the far left, this is not true.

I think this is an unfortunate state of affairs myself, because I'm a lefty who loves Israel. I would like to see the left win out and come to an agreement with the Palestinians (or at the very least, end the occupation unilaterally). The Israeli public is obviously receptive to these ideas - look at how support for unilateral withdrawal and a two-state solution have grown - but a scornful attitude will only convince the ones who already agree. Ami Ayalon made this very point a few weeks ago at Rabin Square. I don't think you get it.

Jonathan Edelstein

June 24, 2004 at 10:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think this is a very brave post. I feel the same way. Of course this kind of thinking is not practical. We can't leave - I was born here and so were my parents. There has to be some better way.

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and lucky you`re! Let`s take our chance together to feel the smell of real money

December 13, 2009 at 10:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good day !.
You may , probably very interested to know how one can collect a huge starting capital .
There is no need to invest much at first. You may begin earning with as small sum of money as 20-100 dollars.

AimTrust is what you need
The company incorporates an offshore structure with advanced asset management technologies in production and delivery of pipes for oil and gas.

Its head office is in Panama with structures around the world.
Do you want to become really rich in short time?
That`s your chance That`s what you wish in the long run!

I`m happy and lucky, I started to take up real money with the help of this company,
and I invite you to do the same. If it gets down to choose a proper partner utilizes your funds in a right way - that`s the AimTrust!.
I make 2G daily, and what I started with was a funny sum of 500 bucks!
It`s easy to get involved , just click this link http://gasiwoga.lookseekpages.com/ohuxih.html
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December 31, 2009 at 10:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello!
You may probably be very interested to know how one can make real money on investments.
There is no initial capital needed.
You may begin to get income with a sum that usually is spent
for daily food, that's 20-100 dollars.
I have been participating in one project for several years,
and I'll be glad to let you know my secrets at my blog.

Please visit blog and send me private message to get the info.

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January 11, 2010 at 2:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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